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APP CONNECTS DRIVERS WITH LAWYERS TO DE-ESCALATE POLICE INTERACTIONS DURING
TRAFFIC STOPS

Feb 21, 2024 6:30 PM EDT

By —

Fred de Sam Lazaro Fred de Sam Lazaro

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Transcript Audio

The murder of George Floyd thrust Minnesota into the center of the debate over
police misconduct. As Fred de Sam Lazaro reports, one effort coming out of that
painful period hopes to make traffic stops safer. It’s part of the series,
Agents for Change.

READ THE FULL TRANSCRIPT

Notice: Transcripts are machine and human generated and lightly edited for
accuracy. They may contain errors.

* William Brangham:

The murder of George Floyd thrust Minnesota into the center of the debate
over police misconduct.

As Fred De Sam Lazaro reports, one effort coming out of that painful period
hopes to make traffic stops safer.

It's part of our coverage of Race Matters issues and Fred's series Agents for
Change.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

For decades, there have been tense relations between law enforcement
authorities and Minnesota's communities of color, punctuated by high profile
police-involved shootings.

* Man:

Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me.

* Man:

OK. OK.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

It was the 2016 death of Philando Castile during a traffic stop near St. Paul
and the protests that followed that brought three 20-something Black men
together.

Mychal Frelix, Chief Operating officer, TurnSignl: I grew up playing with the
Castiles, as did Andre. And I remember even a conversation that Andre and I
had where we said, how can we do something to be a part of the solution?

* Andre Creighton, Chief Financial Officer, TurnSignl:

And I think, when George Floyd occurred, the realization of what we needed to
do really came to fruition.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

Floyd's murder set off a light bulb for Andre Creighton and Mychal Frelix,
each with MBAs, and Jazz Hampton, a lawyer.

It also cracked open the door to start up funding for their idea, as venture
capitalists, philanthropists and Many corporations pledged their support to
addressing issues of race and equity. The three left corporate careers to
launch an app they called TurnSignl.

* Woman:

If you're pulled over, simply launch the TurnSignl app.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

It's marketing slogan is: "We Put an Attorney in the Passenger Seat."

* Woman:

Hi, Thomas. I'm an attorney with TurnSignl.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

The company now has some 50,000 scribes at $60 a year, and 400 lawyers in 50
states have signed on. They do not act as attorneys, at least not yet.
Instead, they are given specific instructions by TurnSignl on how to guide
the driver to de-escalate.

* Mychal Frelix:

We built this training to not only have attorneys look for those verbal and
nonverbal cues, but really just be there for our clients to help calm them
down in that interaction.

* Jazz Hampton, Chief Executive Officer, TurnSignl:

But the number of times, for example, Philando Castile was pulled over, it
was in the 40s, right? That's a lot of times to be pulled over, so people can
be frustrated.

And it's all about how we can tell them that we're here to give them peace of
mind in the moment, because, if they escalate, then the officer will
escalate. This isn't a court of law. It's the side of the road.

* Nyasha Operana, Attorney:

My goal is to make sure that both parties return home safe.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

Minneapolis attorney Nyasha Operana says her legal credentials bring extra
credibility to her value as an observer. She says her virtual presence has
helped lower the temperature.

* Nyasha Operana:

I have had several interactions on both ends, where, one, either the driver
was emotional, upset, trying to prove a point, upset at the officer for
pulling them over.

And we have been able to even tell officers, can you please give me 30
seconds with this driver, calm that driver down, and it's worked.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

If the driver decides later to take the incident to court, they have the
option to contact the attorney. That potential business is one incentive for
TurnSignl's lawyers, who pay an annual fee of $1,000 to be listed on the app.

But Operana says there's more.

* Nyasha Operana:

I do this because I think its important for the community, especially as a
group that might not always have access to justice in the same Manner that
other people would. We want people to be able to trust the police. We want
police to feel safe as well.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

TurnSignl's founders say they regularly seek meetings with law enforcement
agencies to explain the app and raise its visibility, so it's not perceived
as a threat or antagonistic.

* Man:

What's going on?

* Andre Creighton:

Pulled over for speeding.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

And co-founder Andre Creighton just happens to have a recent personal
experience to demonstrate, when he was pulled over in suburban Minneapolis
and got a lawyer on the app.

* Andre Creighton:

Yes. Yes, sir.

* Man:

OK. Ask him — ask him — if he's going to give you a ticket, ask him to please
make it out for 64, anything under 65.

* Andre Creighton:

He's not walking back with papers, so — well, actually, we will see.

* Man:

Who is that, your attorney?

* Andre Creighton:

Yes, my attorney with TurnSignl.

* Man:

You called your attorney over a speeding ticket?

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

Did you get a ticket? Did you deserve it?

* Andre Creighton:

I did not get a ticket. I probably did deserve a ticket.

(Laughter)

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

However, studies show people of color are more likely than white drivers to
receive a ticket or be searched or arrested. About 30 percent of drivers
killed in traffic stops in America are Black, more than twice their
proportion in the general population.

We have had some real difficulty finding TurnSignl app users who are willing
to share their stories publicly. Most were afraid that they would be targets
of future harassment. We did find one individual who lives on the East Coast
who was willing to share, so long as we use only the audio portion of our
Zoom interview.

* Man:

He was very, very, very aggressive. But when he noticed that I turn my
TurnSignl, he calms his voice.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

A West African immigrant, he denies any wrongdoing, but he did get a ticket
and paid the fine. But between the initial stop and writing the citation, he
says, it was the officer who de-escalated.

* Man:

A white guy who is talking to a Black male.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

So, the police officer observed a white face on the app, the lawyer?

* Man:

Yes. Yes.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

You fear that, if you talk to us, if you go public, you might be targeted.

* Man:

Yes, I would be a target, because those who are powerless remain powerless.

Seth Stoughton, University of South Carolina: We continue to layer technology
on top of what is ultimately not a technological problem.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

Criminology and criminal justice professor Seth Stoughton is skeptical of how
much impact the app will have on entrenched social issues.

* Seth Stoughton:

We did the same thing with body cameras. We did the same thing with dash
cameras.

Dash cameras, if we go back into the late '90s, early 2000s, here we are 24
years later still struggling with the issue of racial profiling and traffic
stops. I think the app is probably most promising when it comes to making
people feel better.

* Roseline Friedrich, Business Owner:

And this is all handmade stuff.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

For some users, feeling better makes all the difference. Roseline Friedrich,
who owns a boutique store in St. Paul, hasn't used the app during a traffic
stop, but says she feels safer knowing it's available.

* Roseline Friedrich:

Every time I have like a weird interaction with the police, or like during
traffic stop stuff, I'm a brown person. I immediately go into — having it on
my phone at all times makes me feel like I don't ever have to worry about an
officer pulling me over.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

That peace of mind also pays a public health dividend, says TurnSignl's
Mychal Frelix.

* Mychal Frelix:

Racism is a public health crisis. And where you live, and where you work and
where you play factor into your overall health as a huMan being. And so
there's a lot of organizations that still truly do believe in that.

* Fred De Sam Lazaro:

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Minnesota is among several companies and
philanthropies that cover the app's subscription cost for anyone earning less
than $40,000 a year, some 40 percent of all subscribers.

The start-up has met its goal so far, and hope is, as it gets into more and
more cars, begins to turn a profit in two years.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Fred De Sam Lazaro in Minneapolis.

* William Brangham:

Fred's reporting is a partnership with the Under-Told Stories Project at the
University of St. Thomas in Minnesota.

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PBS NewsHour from Feb 21, 2024

* Feb 08

Watch 5:26

St. Paul makes history as 1st major U.S. city to elect all-female city
council

By Fred de Sam Lazaro, Sam Lane

* Jan 29

Watch 8:01

Minneapolis chamber group performs music written by Polish prisoners at
Auschwitz

By Fred de Sam Lazaro, Simeon Lancaster

* Jan 01

Watch 7:00

Doctors unionize as healthcare services are consolidated into corporate
systems

By Fred de Sam Lazaro, Simeon Lancaster

GO DEEPER

* agents for change
* minnesota
* police
* race matters
* traffic stops

By —

Fred de Sam Lazaro Fred de Sam Lazaro

Fred de Sam Lazaro is director of the Under-Told Stories Project at the
University of St. Thomas in Minnesota, a program that combines international
journalism and teaching. He has served with the PBS NewsHour since 1985 and is a
regular contributor and substitute anchor for PBS' Religion and Ethics
Newsweekly.

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