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Former President Donald Trump's attorney on Sunday welcomed former Vice
President Mike Pence potentially testifying at Trump's future trial related to
his push to overturn the 2020 election -- but Trump's lawyer wouldn't discuss if
Trump will do the same.

John Lauro argued on ABC's "This Week" that Pence, who is a key figure in
Trump's unprecedented third indictment, could actually be beneficial to Trump --
despite Pence rebuking Trump for urging him to stop the certification of their
defeat on Jan. 6, 2021, when Congress convened at the Capitol and Pence presided
in a ceremonial role.



Lauro maintained that Pence, if called to testify, would agree that Trump wasn't
acting with criminal intent in seeking to stay in power and reverse his loss.

"Mike Pence will be one of our best witnesses at trial. ... I cannot wait until
I have the opportunity to cross-examine Mr. Pence," Lauro told "This Week"
anchor George Stephanopoulos.

"Based on what Vice President Pence will say, the government will never be able
to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump had corrupt or criminal
intent. And that's what this case is about," Lauro contended.

MORE: Criminal intent, free speech emerge as key issues in Trump's Jan. 6
indictment

Trump denies breaking any laws and has pleaded not guilty to the four charges in
his third indictment: conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to
obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an
official proceeding and conspiracy against rights.

"This is a persecution of a political opponent," he claimed after his
arraignment in Washington on Thursday.




Pressed by Stephanopoulos on Sunday if Trump would be willing to go under oath
to challenge Pence's version of events, Lauro responded, "That's impossible to
say right now. What we have to see is what the Biden administration is going to
put on evidence."

Throughout Lauro's sometimes contentious interview with Stephanopoulos, he
repeatedly insisted that federal prosecutors will struggle to prove Trump acted
corruptly because Trump was not convinced the 2020 election was legitimately
conducted -- a view rejected by the courts and election officials -- and that he
was seeking legal advice on the best way to challenge the results.

"People disagree all the time about constitutional points, but nobody gets
indicted," Lauro said.

Special counsel Jack Smith anticipated such defenses in his 45-page indictment,
legal experts previously told ABC News as they weighed in on the case.

"The majority of the indictment is trying to establish Trump's knowledge that he
lost the election and his intent to overturn the election results," said Neama
Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor and president of West Coast Trial Lawyers.




On "This Week," Stephanopoulos pointed to Pence's own statements and how they
contradicted his former boss: "What Mike Pence has said all this week is that
what President Trump did was wrong and he knew it was wrong and he was pressing
him to do something that was wrong."



Pence has also said that Trump once criticized him as "too honest" for his
position that he had no legal authority to reject the 2020 Electoral College
results in his ceremonial role on Jan. 6. Trump, on social media, claimed on
Saturday that he never said that.

Asked by Stephanopoulos what will happen if Pence can substantiate that
exchange, Lauro sought to play it down.

"The issue was described in Mr. Pence's book [his 2022 memoir] with respect to
some of the legislation that was going on. And Mr. Pence said that he recalls
Mr. Trump saying that Mr. Pence's position on a particular piece of litigation
that was going on was hyper technical and hyper legal. That's a side issue,"
Lauro said. "No one is going to be concerned about that."



However, Pence could end up being a key witness against Trump, given his
firsthand knowledge of Trump's efforts to stay in office.

He previously spoke with a federal grand jury, under subpoena, and said on
Sunday on CNN: "I have no plans to testify. But, look, we'll always comply with
the law."

MORE: Many GOP voters remain undeterred by new Trump indictment

Lauro, on "This Week," said that while Pence disagreed with Trump, "He never
said it was criminal ... You may think that somebody is acting inappropriately
under constitutional principles. But Mr. Pence, who is a lawyer, never said to
Mr. Trump, 'I think what you're doing is criminal,' That's very important."

The back-and-forth goes to the heart of the Trump legal team's argument, that
the then-president always believed the 2020 election was stolen and had a First
Amendment right to say so while, as Lauro put it, "petition[ing] his government"
to intervene in on his behalf.

Smith appeared to offer a prebuttal to that argument, using the term "knowingly"
in the indictment 30 times, underscoring that Trump had been told his claims of
fraud were baseless before repeatedly urging allies to try to reverse the 2020
results.

Lauro's response on "This Week" was: Prove it.

"The defense has no obligation to prove anything. We put the government to its
test. The government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump
had criminal intent," he said.

"This is a criminal case where they have to prove not whether or not he won [in
2020]," Lauro said, "but whether or not he was acting corruptly, whether or not
he was acting with a consciousness of guilt, with criminal intent."

ABC News' Alexandra Hutzler contributed to this report.




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In response to comments made by Nancy Pelosi during an appearance on MSNBC's
"Andrea Mitchell Reports" on Friday, in which she compared Trump's lack of
bravado during his arraignment on Thursday to that of a "sad puppy," the former
president is lashing out in signature style.




In a rant posted to Truth Social on Sunday, Trump said, "I purposely didn't
comment on Nancy Pelosi's very weird story concerning her husband, but now I can
because she said something about me, with glee, that was really quite vicious.
'I saw a scared puppy,' she said, as she watched me on television, like millions
of others, that didn't see that. I wasn't 'scared.' Nevertheless, how mean a
thing to say! She is a Wicked Witch whose husbands journey from hell starts and
finishes with her. She is a sick & demented psycho who will someday live in
HELL!"



After sentencing Pelosi to hell, he then pivoted to an all-caps freakout about
not being able to get a fair trial for his many criminal charges writing, "NO
WAY I CAN GET A FAIR TRIAL, OR EVEN CLOSE TO A FAIR TRIAL, IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR THIS, BUT JUST ONE IS THAT I AM CALLING FOR A FEDERAL
TAKEOVER OF THIS FILTHY AND CRIME RIDDEN EMBARRASSMENT TO OUR NATION,  WHERE
MURDERS HAVE JUST SHATTERED THE ALL TIME RECORD, OTHER VIOLENT CRIMES HAVE NEVER
NEEN WORSE, AND TOURISTS HAVE FLED. THE FEDERAL TAKEOVER IS VERY UNPOPULAR WITH
POTENTIAL AREA JURORS, BUT NECESSARY FOR SAFETY, GREATNESS, & FOR ALL THE WORLD
TO SEE!"






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