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HOW REMITTANCES AND PHILANTHROPY MEET DEVELOPMENT CHALLENGES IN AFRICA

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Series: Foresight Africa Podcast

Summary Podcast


HOW REMITTANCES AND PHILANTHROPY MEET DEVELOPMENT CHALLENGES IN AFRICA

Una Osili and Aloysius Uche Ordu Wednesday, April 12, 2023


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In this episode of Foresight Africa podcast, Una Osili, associate dean for
research and international programs and Efroymson Chair in Philanthropy at
Indiana University’s Lilly Family School of Philanthropy, explains the role that
remittances and philanthropy play in meeting development challenges in
sub-Saharan Africa. The African continent, she says, has “a rich history of
philanthropy,” and new tools and technology are expanding new ways of giving.




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UNA OSILI


ASSOCIATE DEAN FOR RESEARCH AND INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMS - IUPUI LILLY FAMILY
SCHOOL OF PHILANTHROPY

Twitter IUPhilanthropy


ALOYSIUS UCHE ORDU


DIRECTOR - AFRICA GROWTH INITIATIVE


SENIOR FELLOW - GLOBAL ECONOMY AND DEVELOPMENT

Twitter AloysiusOrdu
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TRANSCRIPT

[music]

ORDU: I’m Aloysius Uche Ordu, director of the Africa Growth Initiative at the
Brookings Institution. And this is Foresight Africa podcast.

Since 2011, the Africa Growth Initiative at Brookings has published a
high-profile report on the key events and trends likely to shape affairs in
Africa in the year ahead. Entitled Foresight Africa, the goal of the publication
is to bring attention to these burning issues and to support policy actions to
address them.

This is season two of the Foresight Africa podcast in which I engage with the
report authors, as well as policymakers, industry leaders, Africa’s youths, and
other key figures. Learn more on our website, Brookings dot edu slash Foresight
Africa podcast.

My guest today is Professor Una Osili. Una is associate dean for research and
international programs, she is also the Efroymson Chair of Philanthropy and
Dean’s Fellow, Mays Family Institute in Diverse Philanthropy at Indiana
University’s Lilly Family School of Philanthropy. Una wrote a brilliant piece
titled “Philanthropy Plays a vital Role in Meeting Development Challenges and
Mitigating Crises in sub-Saharan Africa,” which we published in Foresight Africa
2022. This is the subject of our podcast conversation today. Sister Una, a warm
welcome to our show.

OSILI: Thank you for having me. I’m delighted and honored to join you today.

ORDU: Let’s start then, for the benefit of our listeners across the continent
and elsewhere. If you could tell us a bit more about your journey. How did a
young lady from Enugu in Nigeria end up as the chair of philanthropy at the
world’s School of Philanthropy in Indiana University?

OSILI: Well, I’m so glad you asked, because it is a very interesting story, at
least when I think back. I grew up in Nigeria. I grew up in Nigeria during the
1970s, in the oil boom in Enugu. And at the time there were a lot of questions
about economics, about policy, about the role that everyone could play in
economic development. So, that got me interested in economics as a subject, and
that’s what I went to graduate school for.

My parents were also very involved in their communities, helping others,
involved in causes, setting up institutions. So, I observed at a very young age
how all of us can make a difference in uplifting our communities.

Fast forward the tape to graduate school. I ended up studying a topic that at
the time no one else was looking at, which were at the time titled
“remittances.” Remittances are funds that immigrants send back to their home
communities. Many of us know them. They play a big role in our communities all
over sub-Saharan Africa and also in Nigeria. But in my dissertation, I saw that
many immigrants in the United States, but also around the world, were involved
in supporting families, but also investing in their communities. And so, that
sparked my interest in philanthropy.

What is philanthropy? It is private action for the public good. That is when
ordinary citizens give money, volunteer their time, their talent, and often
their testimony, their voices to help uplift their communities.

So, that is how I ended up pursuing a career in economics and also in
philanthropy. And fortunately, I have had the wonderful blessing and opportunity
to find an academic home here at the Lilly Family School of Philanthropy at
Indiana University. It’s the world’s first school where we get to study
philanthropy but also do path-breaking research. And at the school, I’m also
very involved in projects that have a focus on sub-Saharan Africa, but also
focus on development.

ORDU: That’s quite a fascinating journey indeed, Una. Thank you for sharing
that. I mean, studying remittances, as you said, at a time when such a subject
was not entirely very popular. That’s great. I see that you currently lead the
research and publication of the Global Philanthropy Environment Index and also
the Global Philanthropy Tracker. What can we learn from these publications and
what are the challenges to philanthropic giving in sub-Saharan Africa?

OSILI: Also very good questions. And I’m so glad you asked.

At the school here at Indiana University we have two projects that focus
specifically on global philanthropy and cross-border giving. So, let me start
with the Global Philanthropy Tracker, because we will be launching the 2023
edition just in a few weeks here in April. So, stay tuned for that. That looks
at how much money flows across borders for philanthropic purposes. And we
compare those resources to official development assistance and also to
remittances and to foreign direct investment.

What we’ve learned is powerful, and I’ll just highlight a few of the insights.
First, remittances and private philanthropy tend to be counter-cyclical. In
other words, when economic conditions are deteriorating, that’s when we see
remittances and private philanthropy increase. In times of crisis in response to
economic shocks, we see that donors tend to increase their sending to the parts
of the world where there are needs, and also remittances tend to be
counter-cyclical.

In contrast, when we look at ODA, for example, that tends to decline when
economic conditions worsen. So, that’s one insight.

The other big picture view is that at a time when we’re seeing ODA flows, that’s
official development assistance, actually tend to taper off or actually decline
in some parts of the world, we’ve seen remittances show a lot of resiliency even
during these tough economic times. And I would say that has also tended to be
the case for private philanthropy.

So, the Global Philanthropy Tracker has really put on the map the role of other
capital flows that we don’t necessarily pay as much attention to: remittances
and alongside our private philanthropy. So, I’m really quite excited about those
findings.

Another big picture finding is we can see where the funds are going to and where
they’re not going to. So, some good news there. Education and health are the top
destinations for cross-border philanthropy, which is really good news for
development professionals and for those who are passionate about development on
the continent.

At the same time, we don’t see as much funding going to new areas—for example,
climate, gender equity, also research on the continent, both basic scientific
research, but also research that’s focused on some of the other challenges that
we face. So, those are areas where I think we need more attention to.

And finally, at a time when we’re learning about the role of communities in
uplifting our continent, it’s also important that grassroots organizations who
have historically played a role in development are not necessarily the ones that
receive those large grants, but we’re seeing some change there.

So, those are three findings from the Global Philanthropy Tracker that are quite
relevant for the African continent.

And I’ll just mention very quickly that the Global Philanthropy Environment
Index has also been a very useful tool for policymakers who want to see how can
we improve our regional and national environment around attracting those
philanthropic flows, but also making it easier for even our domestic
philanthropists to donate. And here we’ve seen that governments can play a role
in providing incentives, whether those are tax incentives, other incentives, and
removing barriers, obstacles so that we make it easy for everyday citizens, high
net worth donors, international foundations and corporations to make those
donations.

One of the very great stories from the Global Philanthropy Environment Index,
and I’ll make this very short, is during the World Cup a few years back, Kylian
Mbappé wanted to donate some money to some countries in Africa, and there were
all kinds of obstacles to doing that. We need to make it easier for our diaspora
communities, our folks at home, our families, high net worth families, but
everyday citizens to actually make those donations. And right now, within many
African countries, it’s quite difficult and cumbersome to make those kinds of
donations. So, that’s, I think, a very important set of insights coming out of
the Global Philanthropy Environment Index or the GPEI.

ORDU: Great insights indeed. And I think the point you made is a very, very
important one and not lost on that. The idea of remittances playing a
counter-cyclical role. That’s a very, very important observation. You also
mentioned the channels mostly to education and health, and some people might
wonder why real estate and housing didn’t show up, because most of us in
diaspora, one of the first things we tend to, you know, invest in back home is
housing. How does real estate on the housing stack up with the other sectors?

OSILI: Yes. So, I was focusing on the philanthropic flows, that the number one
destination is education, health. When it comes to remittances, family is
actually the number one destination. But also when it comes to investment, we
see that real estate is often the first place that migrants start, but they may
also invest in small businesses.

And as I mentioned, what is also very, I think, exciting and inspiring on the
continent is that we’re seeing communities come together to make investments.
That might be a water project, that might be a climate project, that may also be
building schools and hospitals. In southeastern Nigeria, where I come from,
there have been so many documented examples of immigrants in the diaspora really
collaborating to lift up their communities, and that’s a story that I think we
need to tell more often, because often unless you’re in that community you may
not know about this, but migrants are working together individually, of course,
but collectively. And we know that the very famous African proverb is that there
is strength in numbers. And when migrant communities, diaspora communities join
forces, they can actually start to move the needle in areas like education and
health, but also in many other new areas. I lifted up a climate, gender equity,
and many other new areas in our development landscape.

ORDU: Una, you’re also the founder of Generosity for Life, a digital platform
that provides new data tools on philanthropy and social impact. What challenges
did you face in launching this platform?

OSILI: Well, you just raised a very good question. And there is a through line
in a lot of the work that I’ve done. I’m very passionate about research and data
and bringing those data insights to life. And that project came about because we
saw that there were so many websites about how to be generous, how to learn
about philanthropy, but very few of them had data associated with them. So, we
had to basically close that gap, but we felt a need to close that gap.

The big challenge is like any other project, I think, is finding the funding to
start the project. But once we identified funding sources, the next set of
challenges were finding the tech partners that would work alongside us to bring
this vision to life. And I’m very excited to say that that project has
continued, it’s being sustained. And through that platform, many folks of all
different backgrounds—educators, parents, children, adults, policymakers—are
able to drill down and get real-time data about philanthropy in the U.S. And we
hope to expand that platform to even other countries that at some point, of
course.

ORDU: And not so long ago, you testified here in Washington before the Joint
Economic Committee of the United States Congress on supporting charitable giving
during the COVID crisis. And also, you testified before the subcommittee of the
U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. What were your key messages to the
congressional leaders?

OSILI: Yes, in both of those testimonies, and then even recently with the U.S.
Senate Finance Committee last year in 2022, I think one theme in the
opportunities I’ve had to testify in Congress is to make the point that
generosity is a part of human societies, whether it’s here in the United States,
in sub-Saharan Africa, in urban, rural communities around the world, we see that
people are generous. They give of their money, they give up their time and their
talents.

During COVID, we’ve seen an expansion in generosity. We’ve also seen that people
are using technology to give, whether that’s online, whether that’s using texts
to give campaigns, whether that’s crowdfunding, GoFundMe.

So, the basic message was we need to reduce those barriers, make it easier for
households to give and provide incentives. So, in many parts of the world,
including the United States, there are some tax incentives that some households
who give can benefit from. And I think that has been the message. How do you
keep the accessibility of giving, make it easier for everyday citizens to give?
But also, how do you reduce barriers at the same time? So, that has been a big
message.

In those opportunities to testify one of the key points is also to provide data
and information, because so often we find that policymakers want to support many
of these big picture principles. It doesn’t matter whether you’re to the right
or to the left, you do have an understanding of the importance of involving
people of all different backgrounds in creating change, but they may not fully
understand what those data points are.

So, I’m quite encouraged that prior to the testimony, we did have to prepare
some written remarks. And what was quite interesting is that many of the
lawmakers read the written remarks and were just learning the data and were
quite excited about what was taking place.

ORDU: For three years in a row, Una, 2019, 2020, and 2021 the Nonprofit Times
named you on their list of 50 most influential people in the nonprofit sector.
How has this recognition affected the way you approach your work today?

OSILI: Well, I’m very honored that the Nonprofit Times selected me to be one of
their top 50. I think it comes with a lot of responsibility, especially in the
area of data and knowledge insight. So, what I realize is that the work we do
matters. The research, the opportunities to testify, all of those things come
with a lot of responsibility.

I think even as someone who grew up on the continent, I realize that we also
have a lot of responsibility to make sure that we use whatever platform we have
to make our lives better, to make life better for everyone, especially people
who have been historically left behind or marginalized.

So, I take that responsibility quite seriously. I do understand that as a person
of color, as someone who historically we may not have had those opportunities, I
also want to make sure that I open the door for others. So, that I may be the
first one to occupy this position, but I want to make sure that others are able
to come along. So I take a lot of time to mentor and support other young people
who have an interest in economics, have an interest in research, and who also
want to be part of making our world better. I have a passion for certainly
supporting young people.

ORDU: Opening the door for others is indeed a very noble thing to do and really,
really appreciate all you do in that area. Let’s turn to the brilliant essay you
wrote for us for the 2022 edition of Foresight Africa. In that is you noted that
not only have private donors increased their giving, donations from Africans
have also increased. How is the philanthropic giving by Africans different from
those of the rich countries like the United States and Europe?

OSILI: Well, for those people who are joining us, this will come as no surprise.
The African continent has a rich history of philanthropy. We may not call it
philanthropy, but regardless of whether you are Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya,
Rwanda, even in North Africa, there is a strong tradition of people of limited
means and also people of high net worth resources contributing to support others
and uplift others.

During COVID, we saw many new trends. So, first of all, we know that many donors
stepped up their giving, but they also expanded the tools that they used. On the
African continent, I think what is also interesting is that we’re seeing an
expansion in new ways of giving. So, specifically more collaboration—donors are
working together—but also they’re using new tools. Impact investing is one of
them. Crowdfunding is another.

You could also say that what distinguishes African philanthropists at all
different levels is that many of them are working along a number of margins.
They are giving maybe gifts to institutions, high net worth households
especially may be supporting schools, they may be supporting hospitals, but
they’re also supporting families. They’re supporting their extended family
members. Some of them are educating their relatives or people that they have in
their sphere.

So, one way to think about it is that if you add the informal ways that African
givers and donors are giving and include some of the formal ways that they’re
participating, you will see that a very different picture emerges from what you
might see in Europe or in North America, where many donors are giving more
through formal channels.

And so if you look at that big picture, it suggests that as a continent, we also
have to work quite, I think, intentionally to make sure that all of these ways
that people give are recognized. So, when you’re supporting your family members,
people in your hometown, people that may be in your social network, that you are
also thinking more strategically about aligning or collaborating with
institutions.

And I’ll give you a very simple example. You may provide a scholarship for a
relative—a cousin, a nephew, a niece—but you could also look at how you tap into
maybe some networking opportunities for those young people, collaborating with,
like, junior achievements, Africa, for example, that places young people into
internships.

So, I think what we need to do is continue to build linkages between the
informal giving and the formal giving so that we’re preparing our young people,
especially, for global opportunities. And today I’m actually quite encouraged to
see that there’s a growth in many of those, I’d say, nonprofit organizations and
structures. But we also need to work harder to connect that informal giving with
the formal giving sectors.

ORDU: In that piece also, you talked about the role of religion, the role of
tradition, the role of culture, the role they play in philanthropic giving.
Could you expand a little bit more on that, please?

OSILI: Certainly. When we think about giving, many donors are motivated by a
complex set of reasons. But often when we look at why people give, it comes back
to their values, why is it important to give. All of our major religious
traditions, Christianity, Islam, and even some of the other faith traditions,
emphasize the importance of giving. So, whether it’s the Biblical 10% that we
have to give to our congregations, or in Islam the 2.5% that you should give to
the poor, all of our major world religions, Judaism included, but also Buddhism
and many others, emphasize the role of faith and giving.

So, when we look at the African continent, this is also a pattern where for many
people, giving is informed by their faith, and that might include supporting
their religious congregations, their churches, or their mosques, but also those
in need around them.

What I think we have also a lot of work to do once again is how to make it
easier for nonprofit organizations to raise money, for example. And also
churches, mosques, other religious traditions can collaborate with organizations
as well. And here I just also want to say taking another step, religion is going
to continue to play a role as we think about the continent, because we see some
of the fastest growing congregations around the African continent. And it is
encouraging because many people learn about giving from their faith leaders.

So, going forward, I think there’s also a role for faith communities to play in
bringing some of these issues that we’ve raised—climate, education, health—and
working alongside NGOs, non-governmental organizations, and other institutions
to help spur development at a community level and also at a national level.

ORDU: So, what are the opportunities and challenges that you see posed by
technology in philanthropic giving?

OSILI: Well, I tend to be a techno optimist, so I’ll just start by saying that
technology, as we know it, has both advantages and disadvantages. But what we’ve
seen in the most recent decade, especially on the African continent, is that
technology is making it easier for people to participate. From crowdfunding
campaigns, text to give campaigns, or even online through banking, where you can
raise people’s awareness about a particular cause and allow people to donate
through various platforms.

Technology is also making it easier, everything from cryptocurrency giving,
impact investing, and I’ll even give a very personal example. My high school in
Nigeria, Federal Enugu, many of us are able to connect as alumni around the
world to support our high school, and that is technology that has made it
possible to even build this global alumni community and connect us back to our
high school so that we can contribute to lifting the students, the staff, the
faculty, but also the infrastructure at the school. So, that’s a very positive
role for technology.

I also want to stress that there are a lot of techno pessimists out there,
people who’ve argued that technology also can lead to some disadvantages.
Building trust, for example, is much easier if you can see people face to face.
And trust is a vital part of philanthropy. At the same time, there’s also fraud
online, and sometimes there are unscrupulous leaders that might put up a
campaign that doesn’t necessarily have a root in a community.

What is also encouraging about some of the trends we’re seeing online is that
platforms are starting to make commitments that they will monitor those
campaigns. And if there’s fraud involved, if there’s a fraudulent campaign, they
will refund money back to the donors. GoFundMe is one example here.

So, I do think overall, especially on the continent, technology is removing some
of those barriers, making it easier for people around the world, not just on the
continent, but even within the diaspora, to engage with their causes at home and
also be part of helping solve problems.

ORDU: I couldn’t agree more. Technology is indeed a great connector. As you just
were speaking, I’m reminded that after four decades away from Port Harcourt, I’m
now even more connected, more connected than ever before with my schoolmates in
Port Harcourt, which is quite a testament to the phenomenal role that technology
plays in our life. And of course, there are opportunities to contribute to make
sure that we help each other and also ensure that we make contributions to our
old school. These are all made possible because of technology, so it’s fantastic
indeed. Thank you for sharing that.

I wanted to turn to the fact that the diaspora plays a key role in philanthropic
giving as you documented and indicated in this conversation. But today, though,
many of us are facing challenges of our own because of the high inflation here
in Europe and the United States, the high interest rates, many in the diaspora
are losing their jobs. And of course, the ravages, the ravages of COVID-19
pandemic—we’re not completely out of the woods yet. So, how are these factors
impacting both remittances and philanthropic giving from the evidence you have?

OSILI: Yes, both great questions. This has been a time of unprecedented
challenges. You mentioned COVID-19, but we’ve also had adverse economic shocks
around the world and even the racial and social justice movement with the
killing of George Floyd and so many other factors here in the United States and
truly around the world. What that has meant is that there is greater awareness
of need. So, we have also seen many donors step up, that’s both at the family
level through remittances but also through philanthropy.

At the same time, though, we do know that individuals give when they have a
sense of financial and economic security. In other words, in order to donate,
you have to have the resources to give and you also have to have a sense of
financial security. There’s a great deal of uncertainty right now for a lot of
members of the diaspora, whether they live in North America, in Europe or
elsewhere.

However, what I’ve also seen during this time is because of COVID-19 and the
cascading shocks that have accompanied that, there has been, I’d say, many
donors really stepping up. And for that to continue, I think economic conditions
also play a role.

So, as we look ahead, what is an encouraging sign is that even in this time
where we’ve had all these shocks, there are some households that are better off.
There are some households that have actually been largely unaffected. They were
able to work from home. They are working in sectors that are continuing to do
quite well, even in a downturn. There are households that are actually doing
well. So, for the most part, that has helped in terms of looking at the
aggregate flows.

And we’ve also seen, especially for private philanthropy, I’ll just highlight
that many funders tend to work on 2- to 3-year rolling averages, which means
that what happened this year is not so much a factor, but what’s happened in a
cumulative sense. And during this last, I’d say, few years, even though we’ve
had all these economic shocks, financial markets have actually performed quite
well. So, the stock market in the U.S. has done quite well. And so, that means
that many funders have been in a more favorable position to make large
commitments.

And then finally, I’ll just mention that another bright spot has been high net
worth donors like MacKenzie Scott of former Amazon. She in just in 2020 made a
record $6 billion commitment. And many organizations in sub-Saharan Africa have
benefited from her generosity. What’s also amazing about her way of giving is
that they’re completely unrestricted, meaning she has given gifts without
strings attached. The founder of Twitter, Jack Dorsey, contributed a quarter of
his net worth in Twitter stock to help address equity issues around the world.

So, despite the economic challenges, there’s also been for many households who
are in a position to give a very significant once in a lifetime opportunity to
make a difference. So, when you look at the challenges the world is facing in
climate, in equity, around economic opportunity, many donors realize that making
these gifts now can move the needle on an issue they care about.

So, I think despite the economic challenges, the generosity has continued in a
way that we haven’t seen, actually, and generosity that is focused on equity and
solving problems that the world is facing. So, I think there’s still good news
even in this time of great uncertainty.

ORDU: Those are, MacKenzie Scott and others, the Gates Foundation and many, many
others, I think it’s just remarkable the times we’re in how much people are
contributing in terms of giving of their lives, work, and savings for the
benefit of fellow human beings who are less privileged. I think there’s a lot to
be said for that.

So, as we wrap up, Una, in his interview at the Center for Global Development in
the lead up to the spring meeting 2023, the World Bank nominee for president,
Mr. Ajay Banga, emphasized the need to work together with philanthropic entities
to solve today’s problems. So, if you were advising Ajay Banga as somebody in
this space with a wealth of experience and impressive qualifications in
philanthropy, what advice would you give him on how to achieve his objective of
working together with you guys?

OSILI: Absolutely. Well, I’ll just start with one thing, which is something most
people don’t realize. Philanthropy means love of humanity. And so, that’s what
it translates to. And what we’ve also seen is that no single sector can solve
the scale of the world’s problems. COVID-19 has actually demonstrated that, that
we need government, the private sector, and also multilateral institutions to
work with private donors to achieve these big goals and to solve seemingly
intractable problems.

So, what I would say to him is start with listening to understand those private
donors, to understand the areas that they are doing work in, and also learn the
data in the landscape. Because I just mentioned a few of the key data points
that we have been able to collect—in other words, through the Global
Philanthropy Tracker and the Global Environment Index.

And then the last point I’ll see is we can also learn a lot from private
philanthropists. The Gates Foundation is a very good example in terms of their
role in addressing HIV/AIDS crisis, and polio, and so many other challenges. But
really using data to help solve problems has been a big part of their success.

But I think it’s also building authentic partnerships with communities. We live
in a time where we are learning that we need to work with people who are
proximate to the problem. And private philanthropy is both at the domestic level
and also at the international level. And diaspora communities have a track
record, have a history of working in a way that’s proximate to communities to
solving problems.

So, I think we need that collaboration and bringing the data, which I think the
World Bank has done historically. But I would add data on all of the actors. So,
too often we focused on just the government and multilateral agencies. But how
can we bring in a more comprehensive picture of all the various entities that
are working in the development landscape.

It’s a very different world from 50 years ago, where governments were mostly
actors in the development space. Today we have a varied ecosystem. We have, of
course, the multilaterals and government, but we also have private
philanthropists, domestic private philanthropists, foundations. We have NGOs
that are working on the ground to solve these problems. And I think increasingly
we need to lean on the strengths of all of those actors. When it comes to the
private philanthropy space, many of them are catalysts. They are quite agile and
entrepreneurial and have advantages that perhaps governments do not. And so,
working, I think, more collaboratively and using data to inform those solutions
and approaches would be my advice.

But I’m sure that there is a lot that can be said about how to work in this
environment. But the key insight is that it is a different development
landscape. There are many more actors learning those specific actors and then
learning how to work with them is going to be part of a success equation.

ORDU: That’s really great. And finally, in that landscape, you articulated what
would be your top one or two advice to African governments themselves to avail
of these opportunities that private and philanthropic giving are able to make so
that we can benefit the children, the women, and men of our continent?

OSILI: Number one, I would say, is remove barriers, make it easier for people to
give. And when we see people to give, it includes large foundations, but also
small-scale donors, African diaspora entities, make it easier for them to
collaborate.

And then secondly, provide incentives. When we look at other parts of the world,
whether it’s Mexico, Israel, or even India, they have many incentives for
diaspora communities to work collaboratively with local and national
governments. I think on the African continent we need to think about how we can
scale up some of these initiatives, whether those are matching funds or other
ways that we can incentivize.

And finally, not just donating money, but also volunteering time. There are many
countries have programs to allow diaspora professionals to volunteer their time
and their talents. We need a lot more of that. We look at our African diaspora,
there’s so much talent in health care, in technology, and in so many spaces, and
we have not even started to tap into that collective, I’d say, asset.

And then finally, I think governments also need to listen. They have a lot to
learn from the diaspora communities. And similarly, diaspora communities can do
a lot of listening across so that we can build collaborations that are authentic
and that are impactful on the continent.

ORDU: Those are very, very important. And what you’ve just been saying reminds
me, I used to live in The Philippines for about five years in Manila, and it’s
one of the remarkable things there is that the government of The Philippines
actually has is a department that is devoted to diaspora and remittances and
philanthropic giving. So, I think there is definitely a lot of models out there
for countries on our continent to emulate some of the good practices.

Sister Una, this has been a pleasure speaking with you this morning. Thank you
very, very much for making the time.

OSILI: It has been my pleasure and thank you for having me. I’m delighted to
join you today.

[music]

ORDU: I’m Aloysius Uche Ordu, and this has been Foresight Africa. To learn more
about what you just heard today, you can find this episode online at Brookings
dot edu slash Foresight Africa podcast. The Foresight Africa podcast is brought
to you by the Brookings Podcast Network. Send your feedback and questions
Podcasts at Brookings dot edu.

My special thanks to the production team, including Fred Dews, producer; Nicole
Ntungire and Sakina Djantchiemo, associate producers; and Gastón Reboredo, audio
engineer. The show’s art was designed by Shavanthi Mendis based on a concept by
the creative firm Blossom.

Additional support for this podcast comes from my colleagues in Brookings Global
and the Office of Communications at Brookings.

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 * Sub-Saharan Africa


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