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Q&A


WHAT DID JOSH HAWLEY’S JAN. 6 FIST PUMP REALLY MEAN? WE ASKED THE PHOTOGRAPHER
WHO GOT THE SHOT.

A Q&A with POLITICO photographer Francis Chung on capturing an iconic moment.



Sen. Josh Hawley gestures toward a crowd of supporters of President Donald Trump
gathered outside the U.S. Capitol to protest the certification of
President-elect Joe Biden's Electoral College victory Jan. 6, 2021. Some
demonstrators later breached security and stormed the Capitol. | Francis
Chung/POLITICO

By Michael Schaffer

01/06/2024 07:00 AM EST

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Michael Schaffer is a senior editor and columnist at POLITICO Magazine. He has
covered national and local politics for over twenty years and spent seven years
as editor-in-chief of the Washingtonian. His Capital City column chronicles the
inside conversations and big trends shaping Washington politics.

There are plenty of memorable images of Jan. 6, but the photo shot by POLITICO’s
Francis Chung may be the most confounding: A picture of Missouri Republican Josh
Hawley raising his fist toward protesters outside the Capitol.

The snapshot, depending on your point of view, either depicts a U.S. senator
encouraging insurrection — or a true believer showing solidarity with
law-abiding protesters. For critics in the center and on the left, the photo has
become exhibit A in the case against the Trump-friendly conservative. But Hawley
and his supporters have embraced it.



For the third anniversary of January 6, we sat down with Chung to talk about how
the picture happened, why it resonates, and how the assault on the Capitol
continues to shape the work of political photojournalists.



This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.



Photographer Francis Chung outside the House Chamber at the U.S. Capitol, on May
23, 2023. | Kent Nishimura

You took maybe the most iconic picture of Jan. 6 — and it didn’t show Trump,
members of the mob, or violence. Why do you think the picture resonated so much?

Well, I think it’s because it’s one of, if not the only, images at least from
the Capitol of a lawmaker appearing to show support or solidarity with the Trump
supporters who were gathered outside — at the time peacefully, but we did see
what happened not long after that. It’s a lawmaker appearing to show support
for, possibly, some of the same people who shortly thereafter stormed the
Capitol.

It’s interesting that the picture was also kind of embraced by both sides. A lot
of people looked at it and saw this feckless senator encouraging lawlessness.
But Hawley himself put it on a mug. You’ve shot pictures of politics for a long
time — have you ever had this sort of two-track experience, where people with
very different views are embracing the same photograph?

No, no other picture I’ve shot has had quite as strange a life, in part due to
its resonance with people on all sides. It seems to have served an instrumental
purpose for very different people, including Hawley himself and including us in
the press. We’re simply trying to report on the events of that day, as we always
do, and then those on the left, those on the right, those in the center have
their reactions. I can’t think of another picture of mine that was mobilized and
in such diametrically opposing ways.




Set the scene for me.

I was outside. I was on the east side of the Capitol, ahead of the joint session
to certify the election results. The reason I was outside is I basically didn’t
have access to anything going on inside that day. This was during the pandemic,
when there were a lot of restrictions inside the Capitol anyway. I was outside
just to do what I could, which was to see who gathers out there in terms of
protesters and catch any lawmakers arriving.

On that side of the Capitol, there was a security perimeter. I’d been out there
maybe an hour or two hours before the Hawley arrival. And there was a decent
amount of Trump supporters gathered there, but it had been quite subdued for the
whole morning or earliest part of the afternoon. The Ellipse event with Trump
was still going on. Many, if not most, of the supporters were still down there
so it wasn’t a huge crowd. And honestly, they were not very lively. I don’t even
think there were many chants or anything. It was quite cold. It just wasn’t a
lot of energy yet.

At one point a motorcade came through. Due to the black SUVs, I thought it might
be Vice President Pence. At that point, I was standing pretty far away, kind of
near the security perimeter, shooting protesters because I think there was some
reaction to the motorcade. And then Hawley suddenly became visible walking south
from the Senate side of the Capitol towards the House side, which of course is
where the joint session was going to happen.

I think he may have been the first and only lawmaker I saw outside that day.
Given that that was one of the things I was trying to get, and having known that
he was one of the first lawmakers to say he was going to vote against
certification, he was definitely on the shortlist of people I would have been
interested in. So I ran over towards him, literally, and then caught up to him,
shot a bunch of frames, of which, of course, the fist pump is the one that I
filed [to my editors]. He waved and did a few other things. But the fist pump
was the most important sign of, shall we say, solidarity with those who had been
gathered there. And from what I remember, people did seem to be excited to see
him. Anyone who follows the news knew that he had been someone who had publicly
announced he was going to vote against certifications. I think it was a moment
when the energy of the crowd did increase. There was cheering. He wasn’t very
close to the crowd, but to my recollection, it seemed to liven people up.

I took a few more photos of the crowd and then went in to file in one of the
House office buildings where I had access, because I thought this Hawley shot
might be something that would be newsworthy.


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 3. WHY JAN. 6 IS A PROBLEM FOR TRUMP’S CAMPAIGN


 4. WHAT DID JOSH HAWLEY’S JAN. 6 FIST PUMP REALLY MEAN? WE ASKED THE
    PHOTOGRAPHER WHO GOT THE SHOT.


 5. TRUMP’S CROWDS DON’T WANT TO MOVE ON FROM JAN. 6. THEY WANT RETRIBUTION FOR
    HIM.

In a previously unpublished photo, Hawley gestures toward supporters of
President Donald Trump as he arrives for a joint session of Congress held to
certify President-elect Joe Biden's Electoral College victory in the 2020
presidential election outside the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. | Francis
Chung/POLITICO

So you knew the picture was a winner when you took it.

I had no idea it was going to be, to use your word, a winner or at least to the
extent that it ended up being. Eventually, I saw that one of our editors tweeted
it out. And that it went viral pretty much immediately after the actual rioting,
or the attack on the Capitol, started. I wouldn’t say I was expecting something
like that, because obviously I didn’t know at the time that there was about to
be a violent attack on the Capitol.




Hawley has said that picture doesn’t show him encouraging the criminality at
all. What do you make of that statement? I know you can’t be inside his head,
but you were there.

As you said yourself, I can’t get into his head. And I can’t get into the heads
of the people who he was gesturing at in the moment that photo was taken. So I
don’t know that I can comment on whether or not he was. I would say, from the
way I saw it, and from the way the picture speaks for itself, there’s a clear
show of support from Sen. Hawley to the Trump supporters gathered, at the time
still even in an almost placid manner. I’d been having some problems finding
interesting photos because it was a pretty sedate protest up to that point. All
I can attest to is that there was a show of solidarity from Hawley to those
people. The violent attack on the Capitol happened later.

By the time I finished filing, I started seeing policemen running. I remember
getting a text from a friend alerting me to the fact of what was going on — like
“Things are getting a little out of control. Maybe we should get you out of
there.” And by the time I got back outside, the security perimeter had been
breached and all hell broke loose, at which point I proceeded to try to document
as much as I could see.

You’re a Hill photographer. You guys shoot a lot of things that are kind of set
pieces, like press conferences, hearings, gaggles in the hallway. But you had to
know on the morning of Jan. 6 that it was going to be a day with a lot more
unpredictable stuff. What was your plan when you woke up that morning?

I wanted to do what I could, despite having limited access to some of the main
events. So my plan was capturing any lawmakers I could from my outside vantage
point, and then, of course, capture what I expected to see. I knew there were
going to be Trump supporters demonstrating outside the Capitol. There was a very
high likelihood of that.

I did not expect what actually happened to happen. I don’t even know what I was
thinking through in terms of what the possibilities of that day would have been.
I thought that eventually there would probably be some pretty lively pro-Trump
protests outside the Capitol after people started making their way up from the
White House. I thought there might be some skirmishes or something, but I guess
I would have expected stuff like that to happen at the perimeter or maybe
outside the perimeter. I was expecting normal protest activity. I don’t think it
crossed my mind ahead of time that the Capitol might be breached. I remember
being stunned watching that happen.

As a journalist, do you prefer days when you have no idea what’s going to happen
next? Or do you like using your Hill skills at set pieces that other
photographers might not understand?

I think every day is unpredictable to a certain extent. Just this morning I
covered a press conference outside the Capitol that was disrupted by an
anti-Israel protest. Obviously, that’s not nearly in the same ballpark of drama,
but there’s unpredictability, even in something like a relatively routine press
conference. Unpredictability obviously is more interesting, and can make for
better pictures.

You never know when someone’s going to get hit in the face with a pie.

You have to not be asleep at the wheel even for something potentially happening
at a routine event. I don’t know if I could say what I prefer or not. It’s good
to have both. Certainly the best, better pictures often happen in those days
that are unpredictable. But those days can be disappointing as well.



Supporters of President Trump attempt to gain access to the House chamber after
breaching security and forcibly entering the building Jan. 6, 2021. | Francis
Chung/POLITICO

It seems to me there’s also a media story here, which is that a lot of news
outlets have stopped having paid photographers on their full-time staff. How do
you think Jan. 6 would have looked different if it had happened 20 or 30 years
earlier, when there was a much bigger photographer corps?




For one thing, if I hadn’t been there, the Hawley photo probably wouldn’t have
existed, because I’m the only one who got it. There were a few other
photographers out there, but I think they were more primarily focused on the
protesters, because I don’t recall anyone else running over with me to Hawley.
So if I hadn’t been a staff photographer that photo simply wouldn’t have
existed. And Jan. 6 would look different on that front.

Now, I think a lot of the other iconic images of the day like the fighting, the
noose, the incredible shots from inside the chamber where photographers had been
trapped with House members, for example — I think that might have looked
relatively the same because I don’t know that a lot of those outlets like the AP
or the New York Times were staffed differently. Obviously, every photographer in
town swarmed the Capitol once all hell broke loose. Any photojournalist working
would have been there as quickly as they could.

I think there might have been more. But also I think the job would have been
harder back then — it was film instead of digital. I don’t know that we would
have had more images of, say, inside the chamber or Trump at the Ellipse than we
ended up having.

But that brings up another factor, which is technology. Just about every single
person who was on the Hill that day, whether it was a House member or a mob
member, had in their pocket an incredibly powerful camera. What are things that
you, as a professional who walks around with a professional rig, are or were
able to do that a guy with an iPhone can’t do?

I mean, iPhones are pretty good for certain things. But one of the things
they’re bad at is getting good still images of moving targets. Obviously, I also
have techniques and skills built up over years so that I can hand my cameras to
someone else and they couldn’t do what I do. So there’s technology and then
there’s also the human factor.

What was the rest of your day like Jan. 6?

I went to the west side of the Capitol first because I figured people would be
coming from the Ellipse. I got some photos there. Then I went back. I didn’t see
most of the most intense fighting — some of the incredible photos of people
grappling with fencing with Capitol police officers. You can only be one place
at one time. And in the chaos, I was trying to find what I could.

I went back to the east side, which is the side I was on where the Hawley thing
was taken, and the security perimeter had been breached. I remember getting
photos of people standing on top of government vehicles on the plaza. I saw
people eventually breaking windows in the House chamber and then at some point,
I just saw people going into the building.

I followed them into the building, through the basement. I ended up in the
rotunda, where I took some photos. I went over to the House and I saw people
just wandering unfettered in the hallways there. Eventually, I saw people trying
to break into the House chamber.



Top, a supporter of President Donald Trump breaks a window near the entrance to
the House chamber outside the U.S. Capitol and (above) Trump supporters occupy
the U.S. Capitol Rotunda after breaching security and forcibly entering the
building in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6, 2021. | Francis Chung/POLITICO

There was no sense that you were going to get in trouble for having gone into
the building in an unauthorized way as a reporter?

At that point, there was no control over anything. I followed a crowd of other
people who were also not supposed to be in there. At least I was credentialed to
work in the building! So, no, I wasn’t worried about getting in trouble.




Obviously, there were all kinds of other concerns, like potential violence. I
know that at least one still photographer was assaulted. I got some weirdly
semi-veiled verbal threats, which were disconcerting, but I am lucky enough to
have made it out unscathed. But I wasn’t in there that long, because eventually,
once Metropolitan Police arrived to back up the Capitol Police, they started
trying to clear out the building. And I was instructed to leave the building,
and I complied. I’ve sometimes regretted that, because I don’t know what shots I
would have gotten if I stayed in longer. So as a journalist, I regret that. But
a cop was yelling at me to get the hell out. So at some point, I complied. We’ll
never know if that was the right call or not. But that’s what I did.

This was also during one of the peaks of the pandemic. This was one of the first
times I’ve been around a crowd of people of that nature. Of course, they were
unmasked. I wasn’t concerned about getting in trouble for being in the building.
But you’re just kind of going on instinct and adrenaline.

I’m a person of color and I’m a journalist, amongst people who sometimes aren’t
the biggest fans of those things. And the thought crossed my mind that I could
suffer physical violence. The thought crossed my mind that Covid was a risk. The
first thing I saw when I walked in the building was someone coughing violently.
Rioters were setting off some kind of noxious tear gas or smoke or something.

I sat outside trying to file some photos but I couldn’t get a signal. I figured
I couldn’t get back into any of the buildings. I eventually made it out to my
car to sit inside. It took me a while to get there just because of the road
closures. I was able to turn on the heater to get a good enough signal to file
more photos. And then I guess whenever I was able to move the car I left. And
then, immediately, of course, there were requests for media interviews because
the photo had gone viral.

And presumably you had no idea of this?

They were just trying to account for all the people we had on staff who were
out, and they couldn’t reach me because I just couldn’t get a cell signal. I
don’t remember when I realized the photo had gone viral. But eventually I did. I
wasn’t looking at my phone that much. I was just trying to find and take the
best shots I can.



Chung (left) covers Rep. George Santos as he leaves a House GOP conference
meeting on Capitol Hill, on Jan. 25, 2023. | Andrew Harnik/AP

We’re a pretty lucky country in that people who cover politics are not
necessarily accustomed to having their job mean covering physically threatening,
violent, chaotic scenes. What did you learn from Jan. 6, that’s going to inform
or that does inform your work going forward?




You’re trained, or you train yourself, at least at some level, to be ready for
anything at a given moment. I’d probably be overstating it if I said we all walk
around now ready for the next Jan. 6-level event to potentially happen at any
given event or assignment we’re covering. No one’s on that kind of alert all the
time. But I think it’s broadened the possibility of what could potentially
happen. Somewhere in the back of your mind, you’re a little more alive to that
possibility.

So what are you going to do on Jan. 6 this year? The anniversary of your most
viral photo.

It’s not a day I remember fondly. Or, to be honest, one I love revisiting any
more than I have to. It’s a Saturday, so unless something comes up that I’m not
currently assigned to, I believe I have the day off. Of course, if I look at the
news at all, I’ll be reminded of Jan. 6, and I’m sure I’ll think about it. I
don’t know if I’m going to see my own Josh Hawley photo somewhere.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not traumatized. But it wasn’t a great event for our
country. It’s not lost on me that if anyone knows my name at all as a
photojournalist and can attach that to any specific photo, it’s certainly going
to be that one. I honestly just plan to go about my day unless something happens
that’s newsworthy. Because again, what’s different after Jan. 6 is you never
know what can happen. For all I know, I could be spending Jan. 6 covering the
next Jan. 6.



 * Filed under:
 * Joe Biden,
 * Joe Biden 2024,
 * Donald Trump,
 * Donald Trump 2024,
 * Capitol Police,
 * Q&A,
 * Josh Hawley,
 * Jan. 6 Capitol riot


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